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As Starshyne pointed out - "symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation" - which harkens to the soul of this nation, symbolisms, ritual that are the stuff of the cohesive glue of the culture, just as they have been of all empires past.

I pointed it out… I really just restated your main point. You are now putting a slight spin to what I am saying in your interpretation of my quote. Harken? What in the world does “harken” mean… a bit dramatic, heh? Harken…. To listen to attentively (Webster says so). So a freemasonry that listens attentively to the soul of this nation, symbolism…yadayada… a bit dramatic, not? … to make a point about how invasive and calculating they have been. I am not trying to fault dramatic… as I know my posts can be like so…. because I too like to choose words that generate feelings... but this does hit to the heart of the critique I am making… which is that getting stuck on the symbols…running around them…pointing at them…and finally regurgitating the same fear in the way of giving power through words such as “harold HARKEN angels sing”…its kind of like having a love for Horror movies…maybe I am biased, some ppl do…free will, as it is…but it’s a bit ridiculous when there is real work to be done and change is on the table of community dialouge ….  Besides…if this is the case,  I think they have failed miserably in having the symbols and rituals be “the cohesive glues that holds the culture together”. What American culture are you speaking of please? What is THE American culture?

well Rootsie made it clear that she felt I did not digest her words, so I was re-eating very slowly.

But you basically briefly summed it all up.

I'll be back.

word/power, 360.

what say you to the responses of rootsie and starshyne? i think they made some very deep insights that definitely deserve more than the short response you gave. i haven't responded in detail yet to the many points starshyne made because i am till digesting what was said.

word/power, 360.

I recommend Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Disaster Capitalism. She really got me to thinking about whether really its' ideology that moves these you know what's, or simple old-fashioned greed. They came up with the whole "Neoconservative Movement" rhetoric.  Good cover story.

I was not referring to the Bush administration/neo-cons only when I said philosopher kings. I have read Naomi Klein's book. However American Empire or whatever it is morphing into is not a new thing having to do with these radicals - it has only been a means to a trajectory that has been in full motion for quite some time now.  I was speaking more in general terms of the priest-hood class, to the ideals -  enshrined in our nation's symbols, architecture, holidays, and events which have a very intentional playing out. As Starshyne pointed out - "symbol-rich freemasonry that designed this nation" - which harkens to the soul of this nation, symbolisms, ritual that are the stuff of the cohesive glue of the culture, just as they have been of all empires past.

Empire cannot be sustained without some sort of temperence, the dreams of the founding fathers, the dream of world civilization cannot be left to the whims of racketeers only, to greed only. People must actually believe in what they are a part of for it to work. It is not hard to LOOK good after all the steps taken by the Bush Administration. These are necessary good faith gestures, like re-arranging the living room to give it more feng shui. However there is NO indication that Obama intends to reverse the trajectory of empire - if you read the likes of George Soros and Zbigniew Brzezinski you understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

People have to be aware of the issues and then in an organized manner address them the best they know and through what means are accessible to them. While I feel it can be an effectual ways for change, organizations in particular are not necessarily needed to generate that change.
I look at the presidents as all along the same continuum. Not as a superman…and I have to say to me there is little difference between those that think he is/should be and those that are ranting about him not being. The issue to me is about the discourse taking place. Obama, as president, has changed the dialogue. Not made right or arrived “hallelujah”. MLK3 even said his father’s dream is not realized and to me that is exactly the “talking point” brought front and center with this presidency. Hope and change are not slogon by-gones of an election. I do feel people are going to hold the Obama administration accountable. Look at the Anti-Israel protests in Chicago a few weeks ago in which ppl brought it to the front steps of his home. Again, the dialogue is on the table: race, hope, change, no war machine… people have to engage and utilize the word "change" in the discourse.

Nothing has changed in regards to the work that needs to be done… the dialogue has shifted and it’s up to us to be in that dialogue. Leslie recently posted an excellent article about some of the issues. We have to keep talking about the work and the words and work at making changes in our own way, in our own day-to-day to dismantle supremacy… to me its rather old news whether or not this fits a sorcerer plan, of course it does (trilateral agreement/one world money/and actually I think a contrived "Utopian collapse" is the planned driving force)…but of course they don’t REALLY get to “win” in the end … call me stupid…but that’s HOPE isn’t it? Speaking of organization, I do think there is a “higher level” universal connection between people that is based in wanting the best for all, wanting to be their best, know what blatantly right and what blatantly wrong is, and see the true beauty in the world in which we live. That to me is the organization of change in which one can function in their immediate day-to-day life and if not, I can’t think of a better way to wait on the end of the utopian collapse fairytale… maybe ones would earn some points with Jesus on the side.
There was a current in which this election ran… could any of us stop it? Was it not the will of people even if misguided… how do we then “guide these zealots into the light?”  BTW…Some people only wanted Bush out of there and are just pure ecstatic about that fact alone.
This exchange between the government and the governed has not always been an exchange. Slavery and the need for a civil rights and woman’s mov’t are just a couple of obvious examples. The last 2 elections sure didn’t feel like an exchange… People, misguided or not, have engaged in the politics, in a way it hasn’t been for a great while. We have to engage in the dialogue about the issues and move from the symbol. Can we change the symbol? Or Can we change the issues?
Volunteerism, once again I personally am not concerned with the man who brought it up or who initiated it…all on the same continuum. As well, I am not getting wrapped up in figuring their plan…so what. How should it go?... should be the question? I am speaking about the issue being brought front and center. The issue of volunteerism has been quite obviously tied to the Obama administration in the last few days and the dialogue generated surrounding it. It may very well be a means to prime the “unsuspecting masses” to be willing to go off and fight some more trillion dollar wars, scratch that…actually I don’t think so. I think people are smarter than that. I feel that the “stupid ones” might actually have a volunteer experience in a different area of life in which they have had no exposure and see the injustice and disparity and thus be moved to also join the dialogue about what necessary change may look like and subsequent action or at the very least …did a tangible task. Very few volunteers I know (guess what …some have been volunteering since Reagan…so where did it all begin?) are on the gig of “look see…what I am doing” but simply feel strongly about what they do. For all, it’s not some halfway side gig that ones do on MLK day or for Xmas soup kitchens. Most of everything I have learned from others that is lastingly valuable to me has been through the teachings of “volunteers”.

“this DOES however open up a crucial space for us to recognize how much we can organize locally and make better, more active decisions about our lives and our communities. just as the bush administration opened people's eyes to the utter corruption of our system, the obama administration may open our eyes to our own power of not needing "them" to effect the change that we want.  an empire is a full time job, and EVEN with all their surveillance and obama's "black widow*"(btw - how f'd up is THAT name for a big brother operation?), etc. - they can't control all the people all the time.”

--- Exactly…… is that not a first step…a “change” in discourse?

go play with your pal andy then... drill in his head this age of aquirius... and the rising of symbolism power
what ya say gives the best buzz...uppers or downers?

Take it from Skeeter...Utopian collapse...so why bother, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnKCE99sYE

I actually like the fairytale with Mack the turtle man and the "plain little thing" he did...
Yertle the Turtle...
http://www.andstuffso.com/?page_id=88

"360

I know neither starshyne nor I are naive about what volunteerism can be a cover for, or unaware of how change happens.  There are people on the ground doing all kind of good stuff all over the place."

* My intent was not to imply you two were naive.  I was making a general point about the reasons for the call for volunteerism that is part of the Obama strategy as part of my general overall response to the issues brought up in this thread.

Disciple

I asked you a question. As with many of our 'reasonings', I don't feel like you actually read what I say and respond. And as for starshyne's and my 'buzz' that's pretty disrespectful especially for one ostensibly all about examining his own male-dominance tendencies--just sayin'...

What about what starshyne wrote about the apocalyptic utopian thing? What is your vision of the form 'collapse' will take, what comes after, and what in the meantime?

360

I know neither starshyne nor I are naive about what volunteerism can be a cover for, or unaware of how change happens.  There are people on the ground doing all kind of good stuff all over the place.

I recommend Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Disaster Capitalism. She really got me to thinking about whether really its' ideology that moves these you know what's, or simple old-fashioned greed. They came up with the whole "Neoconservative Movement" rhetoric.  Good cover story.

http://counterpunch.org/libby01192009.html